FBI raiding illegal FAKE Book in Costa Rica.

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Goodbye, Sports, Gambling, Poker, Casino

There is now a count down to D-Day and that count down is 268 days left to even have a shot at gambling semi-legally. What does this mean for us in Canada? We have the same Idiots as the US and UK. Goodbye Party Poker, Bet on Sports, WWWts, everything that I cherished and had held as holy is now been stripped from me. I'm assuming My Sole is next to be taxed and put away on the shelf of Idiot trophies along with the killing of thousands of inocence in Iraq, I have to bare this heavy burden. How dow I deal with this dramatic change.....

I'm moving to China.

I figure a least there I can place wagers all day long and not have to worry about the President or Queen wanting to throw me in Gitmo for having a perverted thought. You know that Mind reading devices are the next big Gov. project.

Can anyone make sense of all this qaos.... Where is the Gaming Gandi I'll march... Go on hunger strikes what ever is necessary. :godown:
 

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I think it is 270 days from January 1st. They don't even have a budget to begin figuring out the law till then..

Sean
 

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Seriously

It is not legal to gamble on the internet if you are a US or Canadian citizen living in the US or Canada. All major sportsbooks of the world deal primerily with the US. These popular books are now dealing with US citizens illegaly. You can not transfer money or place a wager online. So... The books that remain with their US customers are doing buisness illegaly. There is no fine line or grey area. Feds will be knocking on doors and IRS will come a hunting. Online SportsBooks are being clearly labeled as Illegal. So... we do it old west style just like the speak easies of old. It's the only way.:toast:
 

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I think it will get worked around, cut off a lot of casual players, serious players, rebel types will stay. Marijuanna, other drugs, prostitution, even shit like kiddie-porn ( I'm against that) are still there, if you want it bad enough.

There will be a lot less books, though. Bonuses will probably become much rarer, or more dangerous to accept ( higher danger of failure from lesser books). Books won't need to give the bonus, will go more on reputation.

That's my take, anyway !

I wouldn't be that nervous if Canadian, it will effect the states much sooner.

Book employees probably drop in value too. Easier to find laid off workers with experience.
 

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Only the Serious will stay....

What does this mean when only the serious stay. Drugs and Prostitution are still around so the Books will be around too. doesn't seem right. I think Sports betting is honorable and should not be fit into these other catagories. But who cares what this Canadian thinks. I would like to know when these rules are firmly put in place will there be anybody left to stand the challenge and will they operate like an illegal drug cartel or will they do buisness quietly on the side or whatever the case. How will this work for the US and Canadians that want to gamble on sports? If so how do we conduct this quiet buisness on the side???:icon_conf
 

................
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Seriouly, In china, you don't have to pay much tax too, or not at all.

You pay something like 500 bucks when you earn 10000 bucks.
 

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A news letter was sent to me stating:" The FBI not the OIJ came and arrested the owners of a (Unmentioned Book) and sent the rest home with reports and warnings that if they ever were caught again they could be extradited to the US." Will the new rash of FAKE sport books lead way to the big books like CRIS and Bodog being targeted by fake or real Investigators. As most know Costa Rica doesn't have the most stand up Investigative forces IE: Police or Organizm Investigative Judicial (OIJ). BoS is gone now who and when will the rest be next?:pucking:
 

morally bankrupt
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sean1 said:
or some kind of prepaid phone card, etc.

Sean

Deposit via prepaid phone card? wtf? :icon_conf :icon_conf :icon_conf :icon_conf :lolBIG:

I think you mean prepaid debit card....I don't think sportsbooks will take free minutes after 9 PM and Weekends...

----

And dude, stop bitching...you'll always have Western Union or some method to deposit...go to betjm or betcris and get a debit card from them...it's exactly like Neteller withdrawals right on to your card within hours..
 

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i thought all of this was illegal for the books to deal with U.S. bettors

now you guys are saying me placing a wager online is illegal for me?
 

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Read if you are Canadian or US Citizen

All bets are off: A U.S. government crackdown earlier this month has left the online gambling industry in legal limbo. Canadian players must suddenly recalculate their odds

Alex Hutchinson
The Ottawa Citizen


Thursday, October 19, 2006

The online gaming industry had been on a very long win streak, growing from nothing to a $12-billion-a-year moneymaker in a single decade. Maybe the businesses got a little cocky, with their high margins, low overhead and the still-growing poker craze. But they forgot one rule: never bet against the House of Representatives.

Last Friday, U.S. President George W. Bush signed into law the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, making it illegal for banks and credit cards to settle payments to Internet gaming sites -- and ending years of legal vagueness and ambiguity. That same day, two major British gaming companies, Sportingbet PLC and Leisure & Gaming PLC, sold their lucrative U.S. operations for $1 each (all figures in U.S. dollars), ridding themselves of a combined $20 million in liabilities they would have incurred in firing some 800 employees.

Earlier in the summer, two executives from British online companies, Peter Dicks of Sportingbet and David Carruthers of BetOnSports PLC, had been arrested while changing planes in the United States. As hints of a crackdown loomed, the shares of publicly traded online gaming companies hemorrhaged $7 billion in value.

Who could have predicted this cataclysmic reversal?

Just about anyone, actually. That's why Toronto-based CryptoLogic Inc., the industry-leading software provider for online gaming companies, announced last month that it was moving its headquarters to Ireland. "The cloud of uncertainty of the U.S. marketplace has been hanging over CryptoLogic for all of its 10-year history," explains Stephen Taylor, the company's chief financial officer.

That uncertainty is finally gone, but the speed of the change has left the industry in turmoil -- and forced several Canadian players to rapidly recalculate their odds. "Wherever there's change, there's opportunity," Taylor says. "And we think we're as well-positioned as anyone to take advantage of it."

- - -

It's not easy to sort out the rules applying to online gaming. If a Canadian using a Canadian computer places a bet with money from a bank account in Antigua, and the bet is processed by a server on the Pacific island of Vanuatu, who has jurisdiction over what elements of the transaction?

"You're into a grey area," says Michael Lipton, a lawyer from the Toronto firm Elkind & Lipton LLP who specializes in gaming law. "Clearly, strong arguments can be made that the software is being used where the server is located, because that's where the bet is accepted. That's the position the United Kingdom takes. But the Department of Justice of the United States says exactly the opposite."

The U.K. and the U.S. represent the two emerging approaches to online gaming: regulation and prohibition, respectively. But in the mid-1990s, when online gambling first began to appear, lawmakers still weren't quite sure what to make of the Internet. It was into that free-for-all that CryptoLogic plunged in 1996, offering software for online versions of popular casino games like roulette and slots, along with the ability to manage the associated e-cash transactions.

"In terms of online gaming, we are the grand-daddy," says Taylor. "We've been around the longest. InterCasino, one of our licensees, was the first online play-for-money casino on the Internet. And we've been a public company, with that record of transparency, for the longest of anybody."

The results have been gratifying: revenue of $86.3 million last year, with earnings up 50 per cent over the previous year. In CryptoLogic's third-floor offices on Toronto's St. Clair Avenue West, where the company's 200 software developers work, the glass surfaces are frosted with stylized dice and playing cards. But it has been good business decisions and continued innovation - they now offer 160 different casino table and slot games -- rather than luck that has fuelled the continued growth.

One decision that now looks particularly prescient is the move to focus on non-American markets, despite the fact that half the $12 billion spent on online gaming last year came from the United States. "Four years ago, 70 per cent of our business was focused towards the United States," Taylor says. "We started a deliberate process to migrate our business to Europe and other parts of the world where this cloud of uncertainty did not exist."

By last year, only 35 per cent of CryptoLogic's business came from U.S. end users. "The move to Ireland was just the next step," he says. "Lewis (Rose, the chief executive officer) and I spend a significant part of our lives flying back and forth between here and Europe. We miss out on business by not being where the action is taking place."

The gradual shift to a European focus was a smart move, and one that was echoed by Calgary-based rival Chartwell Technology Inc., which now has only about five per cent exposure to the U.S. market, says Wojtek Nowak, an analyst who covers the online gaming sector for Blackmont Capital in Toronto. In the near-term, moving the headquarters to Ireland and getting a new CEO (Rose is staying in Canada for family reasons) will cause some disruption, Nowak cautions. "The benefits will come over the long term."

The U.K. interpretation of the law -- that online gaming is legal as long as the servers are located in a jurisdiction that permits it -- means that the biggest companies are concentrated there, many of them publicly traded on the London Stock Exchange. But the servers themselves aren't yet legal in Britain, though a new law allowing regulated online gaming is expected to come into force next year. Instead, servers are scattered in 80 or so mostly small jurisdictions around the world -- places whose names are familiar to offshore bankers: the Isle of Man, a Channel Island named Alderney, Vanuatu in the Pacific, Antigua in the Caribbean, Gibraltar, Costa Rica.

Some jurisdictions have more credibility than others. "There's one in Africa where you just pay $10,000 a year and that's it, (but) what you get for that is anyone's guess," says Judi Kelly, an Australian consultant who advises her clients on gambling licenses and runs the KellyCom news service for the gaming industry. "The good ones have strict oversight and regular testing."

Among the very best, says Kelly, is a jurisdiction about 10 minutes south of Montreal: the Kahnawake Mohawk reserve. "Their probity is unbelievable," Kelly says. "They've been the hub of Internet gaming for the last eight years." All gaming companies licensed in Kahnawake must run their sites on servers provided by an organization called Mohawk Internet Technologies, which allows the reserve's gaming commission to maintain the strict oversight. The application fee is a non-refundable $15,000, which covers the cost of extensive background checks into the applicants, the annual fee is a flat rate $10,000.

The Kahnawake set-up's legality is not unchallenged. Under Canadian law, all forms of gambling are prohibited except specified activities such as horse-racing at approved sites and provincial lottery schemes. Provincial governments are also allowed to manage casinos, or can license charities to manage casinos -- and they can run such schemes "on or through a computer," says Lipton, the gaming lawyer. Governments in British Columbia and Atlantic Canada have recently introduced limited provincially sanctioned online games.

Kahnawake does not qualify for any of those exceptions, but the Mohawk argument is that gambling -- and, less convincingly, the regulation of gambling -- are among the ancient rites and traditions of their people, dating back hundreds of years before European contact. "They talk about a modified craps game, lacrosse, horseback racing, javelin throwing," says Lipton. From there to hosting Internet blackjack is clearly a leap. Federal and provincial attorneys-general have said that the situation is illegal. "But they haven't gone onto the land to stop it," Lipton says. "That may have something to do with the Oka crisis in 1990."

This uncertain legal status has caused concern for some companies -- CrytpoLogic, for instance, does not license any companies whose servers are based there, according to Taylor. While there have reportedly been talks aimed at regularizing Kahawake's status, the reserve's convenient location compared to, say, Vanuatu, along with its connection to a major fibre-optic corridor, has overcome the doubts of many: according to a recent company prospectus, the top five online poker sites in the world were hosted in Kahnawake.

And Mohawk Internet Technologies isn't holding its breath waiting for government approval, according to company representative Chuck Barnett.

"If the Mohawks of Kahnawake, or any Indigenous Nation within the boundaries of Quebec or Canada, were to wait for the blessing of the provincial or federal governments before undertaking any economic development initiative, I believe we would all die of starvation first," he wrote in an e-mail from Spain, where he was meeting with clients.

"If Quebec or Canada should someday choose to recognize our right to self-determination, we will be happy to consider recognizing theirs as well."

The new U.S. legislation, which is focused on payment mechanisms, doesn't affect Kahnawake's status as a hosting site. But some of the reserve's licencees will likely suffer, which could affect business. "(Our) strategy to expand into data centres in both Europe and Asia earlier in the year is perhaps even more important than we had thought," Barnett acknowledged.

- - -

Thanks to the patchwork of provincial gambling regulations, it's difficult to get reliable statistics about gambling in Canada. A report last month from the Responsible Gambling Council indicated that 63.3 per cent of Ontario adults gambled at least once in 2005, with lottery tickets by far the most common form. Another report, based on Statistics Canada data, estimated that there were 468,000 at-risk or problem gamblers in Ontario in 2002.

Over the past 15 years, the anti-gambling lobby has been steadily losing ground as provincial governments become addicted to gambling revenue. By 2002, gaming and lottery revenues were comparable to fuel taxes and liquor and tobacco taxes in provincial budgets, according to a study by the Canada West Foundation. This creates an interesting tug-of-war for provincial regulators, who benefit financially from the growth of gaming, while also being responsible for the sometimes devastating effects on problem gamblers.

In March, Peterborough MPP Jeff Leal introduced a private member's bill in the Ontario Legislature to ban advertising for online gaming. "I'd read reports about college students in the United States racking up tremendous amounts of debt through online gaming," Leal says. "And here in Ontario we have bona fide gaming, whether it's horse-racing or slot machines, operated by the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation, and a number of people in that sector have seen dollars siphoned away to online gaming."

Despite the strict prohibition on unlicensed betting operations, there's no law against Canadians placing bets or playing games on offshore websites. But advertising to attract these customers faces several prohibitions under the Criminal Code of Canada: it is explicitly forbidden to advertise for games of chance and sports betting. Games of mixed skill and chance, on the other hand, are not addressed, says Lipton -- which is why ads for online poker sites are common.

Another approach is to advertise for a "play-money" site, with a suffix such as .net or .tv. As long as no link is provided to the .com "real-money" site, that approach is legal, Lipton says. Even bolder approaches, such as sports bookmaker Bowmans' high-profile endorsement deal with the Canadian Football League, have gone unpunished so far. The Bowmans.com logo was prominently displayed at last year's Grey Cup, despite complaints from the British Columbia Lottery Corporation -- which offers a rival online sports book.

So which is it? Is the government cracking down to protect consumers, or to protect its own revenue stream? Leal has watched the U.S. clampdown and followed the debate in Britain, where regulation of online gaming is seen as way of protecting consumers -- and bringing in tax dollars that would otherwise go offshore. He understands both approaches, but the key is consumer protection, he says. "If people are involved in gaming activities, they have to have some reassurance that it's legal and that they're going to get a fair return with set rules."

In Lipton's view, the benefits of regulation far outweigh the risks. "There are about 80 countries worldwide that tolerate online gaming, and I don't see any of them going down the crapper," he says. Even higher taxes and a strict regulatory burden wouldn't deter companies, he says. "The industry cries out for regulation. They would embrace it."

Taylor, of CrytoLogic, agrees. He points to the Channel Island of Alderney as a jurisdiction with strict regulation that should be emulated. To operate there, "all of our senior officers, myself included, had to have full probity checks, and our software was audited right down to the source code," he says. "We invested a significant amount of money to make sure we were compliant."

The payoff is trust. "If someone is putting money into a computer, they have to know they're being treated fairly," he says. That extends to having rigorous customer identification, so that underage gamblers are unable to register, and software that can recognize patterns of play characteristic of a problem gambler and cut the account off.

For now, the dream of a stable, regulated market remains elusive. Instead, the new U.S. legislation will usher in a period of great uncertainty. Some analysts predict the exodus of large, publicly-traded, mostly British-based gaming companies will leave the field open for less reputable private companies based in the Caribbean.

Since the new legislation is only targeted at payment mechanisms, Lipton predicts that plenty of sites will continue to serve the ravenous U.S. online gaming market. Stopping payment of credit and debit cards, which are coded 7995 for gambling payments, is relatively straightforward. Preventing payment by cheque is a much tougher challenge, he says, and other payment routes will no doubt be developed.

For CryptoLogic, aspiring to full respectability, the U.S. market is closed. Although it had already been shifting its focus to Europe, it won't escape the dramatic repercussions that are shaking the industry -- tougher competition in Europe from companies that have been ejected from the United States, for one thing, Nowak, the Blackmont analyst, says.

In the long term, Taylor hopes that more countries follow Britain's lead towards regulation -- and if Canada goes first, it could attract significant business. "Canada originally started out, from a technology point of view, as one of the original countries where the whole concept of online gaming started. (Now) nobody in online gaming has much of a presence in Canada because of the regulatory environment," he says.

"The genie has been out of the bottle for a number of years now. Trying to go the route of prohibition is very difficult to enforce, and we just believe that regulation is the right way to go."
 

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Blah blah blah, gambling has always been sketchy in the first place hundreds of years ago from local bookies to phone to online..the industry will never die and you are panicing for no reason. Go move to China, I'll be placing bets from my comfortable couch in Orlando for the next 20 years.
 

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Blah blah blah

You may have mentioned blah, blah, blah but get ready as hebius corpus is now dead in your country how as you sit there on your couch the next thing you know your in a holding celling with the rest of the idiots who said blah blah blah becuase they were too ignorant to look at what was happening, never read the fine print and now spend the next 20 years on their nice couch in cell block 10... in orlando. It's not an illusion that your life will be controled completly with in a number of years in a cell or other wise. The US and Canada are not going to have to do much. As soon as the first gamblers go to jail for tax fraud, evasion, ect, ect this will lead to arrests very real arrests. but what ever you just forget about reading and continue to see the world as blah blah blah.:howdy:
 

morally bankrupt
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Haha. 20 years on a couch in cellblock 10. Some people go to jail for first degree murder and get parole earlier.

Anyways, like you were saying. Take the risk, pay your taxes, report your earnings. Nothing to worry about. If not, take the risk, pay your taxes, and use a local bookie like the old days. Nobody goes after the gambler, only the bookie. If not, move to China, try to learn the language and have fun waiting a month for a payout in Beijing.

Seriously, you are overreacting.
 

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Ok

I assume you work for bet CRIS.:pucking: Western Union is implementing the Finger scan. Money Gram has it. Neteller is gone. Credit or Debit will not work. Fire Pay is gone. E-checks and Fed EX will be the new standards. You can try not so known services Vigo or Simply save and make bank wire to bounce accounts using different names as long as the amount is under 1000.
 

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I'm just trying to shed some light on this subject.

I appreciate the comments and am happy with the reaction. I'm glad that no one sees this as a huge problem. The serious gambler will do just that... take the gamble. Maybe it's too early to think about moving to Bejing but I'm deeply disturbed by our constant loss of freedoms that I was a little over blown to see what public reaction would be. Keep on dancing...:dancefool :money8: :modemman: :thumbsup2: :smoker2:
 

morally bankrupt
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billpapa said:
How can the FBI be doing raids in a foreign country?

Exactly, Federal = In the United States.. sources please before posting something like this..
 

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